theljstaff ([info]theljstaff) wrote in [info]news,
@ 2008-03-12 18:57:00
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The 100th day
Today marks the 100th day since we announced SUP's purchase of LiveJournal from Six Apart, the formation of LiveJournal, Inc, and goals for the first 100 days. We've made some amazing progress since that announcement, and we're really proud of what we've accomplished in such a short period of time: the team in the U.S. is growing, we've gained a VP of Product Development, set up a San Francisco home for LiveJournal, and we're ramping up recruiting so we can continue to support and improve the service.

Additionally, we’ve made some great movements towards establishing clear policy guidelines, and will continue to gather your ideas on improving these proposed policies in the coming days. We also started setting up an Advisory Board to help guide LiveJournal in the right direction. Previously, we announced four of the members, and provided information on the roles they will play. When we made this announcement, we mentioned that two of the members will be representatives elected by you. Please read our latest entry in [info]lj_2008 for the details on when these elections will occur, and how they will be held.

There have been a number of other changes in the past 100 days as well. Some of these are more visible, such as our new comment expanding feature, the addition of an icon for entries filtered to custom friends group, and the ability to easily discover new content with Explore LJ. We've also made some improvements to LiveJournal's infrastructure; email notifications should now be faster, and we're in the process of making other changes which will improve the site's overall speed.

Other changes you may have noticed are the logged-out homepage and registration process for new users. We streamlined and simplified things so that now it’s faster and easier than ever to create a LiveJournal account.

After focusing time on some of the most requested features, we are looking forward to the future and seeing how we can continue to make LiveJournal even better. We want to honor the tradition of being a unique place to write, share, and keep in touch with friends, while also helping people find communities of people with interests similar to their own. Our goals for the future include continuing to improve the design of the site, extending LiveJournal’s reach throughout the world, and improving our ability to support users worldwide… all while continuing to provide a compelling place to write and express yourself.



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Re: Basic accounts
[info]xb95
2008-03-13 01:07 am UTC (link)
Pro tip: I don't think your userpic is a very good idea. At least don't be wearing a suit in it. ;-)

Anyway, back to your post: interesting. Of course, the fact that within a post trying to explain your position, you:

* quoted the FAQ stating what people have already been saying (that's insulting, we don't all read FAQs scouring for changes, we read [info]news)
* totally flummoxed the issue (do you really think any of the users care about new account flow?)
* totally lied (do you really want us to buy in to the idea that simplifying the account flow necessitated dropping Basic? why not drop Plus and remove ads entirely? sounds simpler!)
* tried to upsell us (hey, it's only $20/year, you get X and Y features too, and we're adding more)
* signed off with a typical business signoff, not as a person addressing someone they've upset (seriously here -- the last time your wife was upset at you, did you ever think of saying "I sincerely hope you will continue to give me a chance to respond to your concerns...")

Welcome to LiveJournal, Jason. You're in for a rough ride if this is the approach you're going to take with the community.

At any rate, I want to be clear: I'm fully in support of this site staying fiscally stable. If it's been determined that removing Basic accounts is the way to do that, then fine. Just have some balls about it, don't treat the users like retarded lemurs while hoping they aren't paying attention.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]jasonshellen
2008-03-13 01:09 am UTC (link)
Just posted before some of the recent post here more on the decision making process:

http://news.livejournal.com/106731.html?thread=68499435#t68499435

I think the personal attacks are a bit much, I'm happy to comment here as long as this is a reasonable conversation.

PS: Duly noted on the suit userpic.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]sabbrielle
2008-03-13 01:22 am UTC (link)
Regarding the personal attacks, I'm impressed that you've jumped into the fray. I think it is mostly because users feel personally attacked that they think it acceptable to respond in kind. You're right that it doesn't get us anywhere.

I'm wondering if you're willing to soften the effects of this decision with action. I mean, is this conversation here just that, a "conversation"? (I'm honestly curious and don't mean to be cheeky.) Or would you be willing to take suggestions?

For example, would you consider giving paid/permanent account holders the feature of being able to open a new basic account? As has been already stated, existing users like to open alternate accounts for various reasons.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]dawn_again, 2008-03-13 01:47 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]rahaeli
2008-03-13 01:28 am UTC (link)
Jason, you're fighting a land war in Asia here. Really, you are. Do yourself a favor and get out before you find yourself accidentally committed to bombing Cambodia ...

The best thing to do at this point is:

1). Roll back the changes.
2). Apologize. Top-level, for not announcing things first.
3). Say that on X date, nobody will be able to create a basic account anymore, where X = sometime greater than 7 days.
4). Leave out the upsells and the for-your-own-good spin. Tell it like it is: we've had to make this business decision, we know it's not going to go over well, we're sorry we tried to slip it in and handwave our way away from it, and we won't do it again.
5). Then stick to it.

When you strip aside all the outrage and the cat macros and the people posting pictures of the failboat, nobody wants to see LJ as anything other than fiscally stable and secure for the long run. Seriously. Just come out and say: hey, this is what we're doing for the site's long-term health.

LJ users do not like being condescended to. And LJ users are really, really, truly and fundamentally allergic to marketing speak -- and can smell it at a thousand paces. Dressing it up in "for your own good" gets you fail macros. It really is kind of a fundamental fact of life around here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]adarkheartdawns, 2008-03-13 01:31 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]machineplay, 2008-03-13 01:40 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]jennem, 2008-03-13 01:46 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]tipsiturvi, 2008-03-13 02:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]missinfinity, 2008-03-13 01:45 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]adarkheartdawns, 2008-03-13 01:46 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]missinfinity, 2008-03-13 02:06 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]adarkheartdawns, 2008-03-13 02:13 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]shortsweetcynic, 2008-03-13 11:04 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]fools_game, 2008-03-13 06:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]aroihkin, 2008-03-13 11:32 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]dana_cz, 2008-03-13 02:14 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]jennem, 2008-03-13 01:31 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]leah_lightwing, 2008-03-13 01:38 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]uniquewonders, 2008-03-13 01:49 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]grlnamedlucifer, 2008-03-13 02:02 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]featherofeeling, 2008-03-13 02:43 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]leora, 2008-03-13 02:28 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]nicked_metal, 2008-03-13 12:14 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]elyssa, 2008-03-13 02:31 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]lipsum, 2008-03-13 02:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]fencer_x, 2008-03-13 02:44 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]isiscolo, 2008-03-13 04:10 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]zarhooie, 2008-03-13 04:20 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]pauamma, 2008-03-14 01:28 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]otana, 2008-03-13 04:42 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]dogmatix_san, 2008-03-13 06:52 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]g_shadowslayer, 2008-03-13 07:02 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]naye, 2008-03-13 08:56 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]azarias, 2008-03-13 08:58 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]yukie1013, 2008-03-13 11:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]yukie1013, 2008-03-13 11:47 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]kittygopounce, 2008-03-13 12:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]turloughishere, 2008-03-13 01:17 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]twisted_times, 2008-03-13 02:03 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]arsenicandtea, 2008-03-13 02:41 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]thelastsong, 2008-03-13 10:20 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]mandy_croyance, 2008-03-14 03:52 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]xb95
2008-03-13 01:29 am UTC (link)
If you at any time thought I was attacking you personally - then I'm sorry for conveying that impression. That was never my intention, and I really fail to see how I came across that way. (But that's neither here nor there, I am not the best judge of how other people will take things I write, so again, I'm sorry for that.)

I still believe I raised valid points, and the link you have provided does not actually cover any of them to any reasonable level of satisfaction. Why did you (referring to the company, not you personally) feel it necessary to try to slip this on through? Why were you not up front, honest, and willing to deal with us on the level we expect - as adults discussing issues with adults?

I don't expect you to actually reply to this with any semblance of an answer, this is more as food for thought. I know that you're new to this site, this company, and you're mostly just the implementor of someone else's decisions. I respect that you have chosen to step in and comment, it is appreciated.

Again, I'm sorry that some part of what I said came across as a personal attack. Totally not what I'm going for here. :P

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]txvoodoo
2008-03-13 01:34 am UTC (link)
You thought that was a personal attack?

No offense, dude, but how long have you been ON livejournal??

That was a walk in the park, complete with Disney bluebirds and butterflies, compared to some of what anyone speaking on an issue like this is gonna get. Time to load up on abestos longjohns.

In any case, people tend to get a bit hot under the collar when basic policy changes like this are slid in, unmentioned, unwarned, and then trumped up as a "ease of use" issue.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]msilverstar, 2008-03-13 01:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]thevelvetsun, 2008-03-13 02:17 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]tipsiturvi, 2008-03-13 02:51 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]oconel, 2008-03-13 08:47 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]jennem
2008-03-13 01:37 am UTC (link)
And, I think implying that your user-base is full of fucking idiots in order to cover up your screw up is a bit much.

Edited at 2008-03-13 01:39 am UTC

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]delle, 2008-03-13 02:16 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]thevelvetsun
2008-03-13 02:18 am UTC (link)
But implying your users are too dumb to get through a simple registration process ISN'T a personal attack? Please. You're lying and everyone knows it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]machineplay
2008-03-13 02:31 am UTC (link)
Also, the fact that some of your most experienced and dedicated volunteers -- amazing resources who could have saved you so much trouble -- are having to communicate with you through this post is simply pitiful. Seriously. These are people who are trying to support you, who are doing it for free, who are one of the most vital parts of this whole process (and it is a living, ever-shifting process, not a static thing), and I get the impression that they don't even have a voice here.

That makes me really sad for the future of LJ. These are smart people not only offering you a free education in the science of LJ but they're trying to hold your hand and stand up for you in public when you're screwing up right off the bat. These people are sitting on the information that could make or break this company, and they don't seem to have a way to contact you.

Free support. Not just in the mechanical sense, but in the most genuine, dedicated sense. People who are basically donating thousands of dollars a year to this service because they could be working another job with their time. People who have been here since the days when a server upgrade meant something like getting one person to strap a spare server onto the back of someone else's motorbike and drive it to a new location.

Please listen to these people. Take them into account as resources. It will make you better at your job, it will make you smarter, and even if it doesn't stop blowouts like this one, at least you'll have help plugging all the holes faster than you're doing now.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]serenadesha, 2008-03-13 02:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]moiread, 2008-03-13 01:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]pauamma, 2008-03-14 01:35 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]fiercy
2008-03-13 03:09 am UTC (link)
You think the personal attacks are a bit much? I'm fish-mouthing here. Maybe I am slow, or confused, because I'm having a little trouble comprehending how it's not a personal attack (albeit on a global scale) to suggest people are too stupid to parse out the differences between three account choices versus two. Come on. Really?

And then, to compound your ludicrous behavior, you decided to mock your current users by trotting out that asinine line of bull, expecting them to believe it. Because you wouldn't be so stupid as to post that thinking they wouldn't...would you? And then you hold up your hands and say "hey, don't be mean to me".

I stopped giving money to LJ a long time ago, because I could clearly see where you were headed. At that point I sat back and, for the most part, quit caring what you folks did. However, this is just such a high form of insult I had to step in with my opinion. Of course, we know that doesn't matter to you folks but, as a friend says, sometimes you just have to rail at the wind.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]vichan
2008-03-13 03:40 am UTC (link)
I think the personal attacks are a bit much...

Welcome to the Internet.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]klgrem, 2008-03-13 10:39 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]aroihkin, 2008-03-13 11:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]jaybee65
2008-03-13 04:01 am UTC (link)
I think the personal attacks are a bit much, I'm happy to comment here as long as this is a reasonable conversation.

Ahahahahaha! You must be new here.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]superbus
2008-03-13 04:01 am UTC (link)
I don't think you understand how personal Livejournal is to the majority of people that are in these communities, especially with how corporate other competing sites (MySpace, Facebook, et all) have gotten. It's gotten to the point where you can never truly delete your account off of Facebook; it can be found and used by any corporate group that's bought into their little scheme, and there's nothing you can do about it. Are we going that direction, Jason?

It's not even the fact that you did it; it's the fact that you lied about it, spun it, and expected us to buy off on it. Your memberbase - you know, your "customers", or as you like to call them in the business world, "commodities" - was sensitive when Six Apart bought this site from Brad, got more sensitive when the Plus accounts were put forth, made a mockery of free "Pepsi" gifts, practically had a coronary during "Strikethrough '07", and were so relieved that Six Apart was no longer involved that they celebrated being sold to a Russian company who any outsider knew was going to exploit the business potential into the ground. Your users might be naive and self-serving at times, but they are not by any means fools.

Your company bought into this, Mr. Shellen. Your company bought into a website that has users that are equal parts educated, cynical, loyal, selfish and noisy when rankled. I don't expect you to know this, as your account was only created in November (or basically, when you realized you had to read up on what you were getting into), but that's your failing, as well as your company's; what business doesn't know everything about a company before it buys in? So I have no sympathy for the situation you put yourself into because you were ignorant when it's your JOB not to be.

And your explanations so far as very "safe". We don't do "safe" here; we can see through "safe", and we hate euphemisms, which is what all of your words have been thus far. We can sniff out BS from a mile away, whether it's from our own, ingrained cynicism or from our real-life jobs where we see it every day. And if you're so willing to talk, why didn't you say more other than linking to the FAQ, linking to other sites, and generally inundating us with technicalities and spin? You didn't even listen to your own advisors, of which include the founder of the website, who is highly respected by all!

In short, none of this really affects me personally; I'm a permanent account holder, and I have Adblock Plus installed to take care of anything that might come up in the future. But it feels like everyone has been lied to here, and the best anyone can come up with is spin, lies and propaganda. At least Barak Berkowitz had the temerity to own up and accept full and total responsibility whenever Six Apart screwed something up under his watch (like Strikethrough '07). Of course, maybe he's a bad example to use... he DID leave the company in September, just in time for Chris Aiden to come in and sell the site on December 2nd. I guess honesty and transparency aren't very good qualities for a businessman. What would I know... I'm just a silly blogger.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]vakkotaur, 2008-03-13 04:25 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]zarhooie, 2008-03-13 12:29 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]nysidra, 2008-03-13 12:58 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]verbminx
2008-03-13 04:22 am UTC (link)
Hint: existing users create new accounts when they open communities. Most are likely to object to the communities (that require a lot of work from the maintainer, if there is any activity) being a source of ad revenue, if they realize that's what's going on.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]azarias
2008-03-13 09:08 am UTC (link)
Honey. Oh, honey. You really don't know LiveJournal, do you? These aren't personal attacks. These are lovebites. No, it's not fair, but it's the Internet, and it's LiveJournal, and in the grand scheme of things, you ain't seen nothing yet. I really wish I could tell you that everyone will be reasonable and understandable, but that's just not so. A lot of people will be, though, and please, for your own sake, listen to those people.

The problem is, you're taking the role of a customer relations person right now. Customer relations people do not get to bitch, in public, about how customers treat them. Your LiveJournal has a friendslock feature just like everyone else's. Bitch there. Don't call people out for personal in public. It'll just get you laughed at. And for the love of god, when people tell you that you have insulted them by insinuating their lack of intelligence is why your company has done something that is obviously a financial decision, don't try to defend yourself by saying other people are mean.

Check out the commenters to this thread. Note how many of them have permanent accounts. What you may not know is that most of them got those permanent accounts not by paying money for them, but by volunteering, on a long-term basis, to take their personal time and shovel some of the most menial and unpleasant crap this site can produce. They've put up with a hell of a lot worse than you've taken in this thread, and they haven't complained in public, because that's not what professionals do.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]xphoenixrising
2008-03-13 09:14 am UTC (link)
You thought those were personal attacks? Mr. Hellen, I'd get out of the PR on this site right now. We're pointing out the fail in your first jump-in and many of the people here are rather intelligent sharks that'll rip everything down to the "tell it like it is".

Good luck. Hope you survive. Welcome to LiveJournal. The rate that this is all going? It'll only get worse.

And I believe it's been hit home enough that we're not idiots and we liked to be talked to like people, not idiot children who'll shell out our money for gumdrops if we're unhappy. Not cool.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]rustybitch
2008-03-13 10:52 am UTC (link)
I'm happy to comment here as long as this is a reasonable conversation

Whoa, you have some frikking nerve!

That was not a personal attack, that was someone giving you very good advice. Quite politely too. To respond as the people here are unruly children you can scold and condescend to, now that is insulting.

Your userbase does not consist of idiots you can dismiss, Mr. Hellen. In fact, as the actual content providers in the equation, their concerns should be of paramount importance to you.

You tried to sneak a major-impact change by under the radar and then, when called on your bullshit, you tried to spin the problem away. To add insult to injury, your spin turned out to be to tell the very same people you are trying to placate that they are incompetent imbeciles. Again, that's a personal insult.

I'd ask how the fuck did you expect people to react, except it's painfully obvious that you're new in these parts.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]moiread
2008-03-13 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Oh, honey. You took a job where you have to be directly answerable to the userbase. This means actually dealing with the individuals, many of whom will react out of shock or anger or a feeling of betrayal like any other human being might if they were in the same room as you. This is not business from behind an office desk, with many layers of infrastructure between you and your customers; this is LiveJournal, and it's a completely different model. When you get feedback, you get it directly, and because this is the internet, that feedback will frequently display the worst of this medium as well as the best.

For a better education on how to adapt to the vagaries of this unique medium, I suggest you go consult your Advisory Board. They are an invaluable resource.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]timprov
2008-03-13 02:56 pm UTC (link)
Presumably SUP bought LJ in part because of its dedicated customer base and strong retention. That doesn't come free; if you don't pay attention to what emotionally invested customers want, they will raise hell about it. Some of them are going to be angry. I don't think, from a business perspective, you would rather we were indifferent.

You have an opportunity here to show that SUP is not Six Apart. The Six Apart M.O. in this situation was to wander off and let the users yell at each other in futility. You have the opportunity to actually make concrete steps to address the concerns of your dedicated customers, and rectify a specific mistake you've clearly made: incorrectly assuming that paid and permanent users do not create new basic accounts. Please take it.

I think you will be surprised at how easily LJers can be won back. We want to be proud of the people who run LJ. Please give us a chance.

edit for a more optimistic icon choice.

Edited at 2008-03-13 02:57 pm UTC

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]baby_werewolf
2008-03-14 02:59 am UTC (link)
This is the internet.
This is LIVEJOURNAL. (to be said in rather "this is SPARTA" tones)
We as a usebase are bloody good at wank and ad hominem attacks. Word of friendly advice: get used to it. Especially when it comes to policy discussions.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]nike_victory
2008-03-14 03:54 am UTC (link)
Ha! Honestly, we're being surprisingly nice considering we're very unhappy right now. Search LJ for "wank" or "rage" if you want to see how very nasty we can get.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]mattador
2008-03-14 06:24 am UTC (link)
I think the personal attacks are a bit much, I'm happy to comment here as long as this is a reasonable conversation.

Speaking as someone employed as a customer service representative, and meant with no rancor whatsoever: if these are the only terms under which you are willing to speak to your customer base, especially after the actions of the company you represent have upset them, then you are in the wrong line of work.

Good customer service necessitates the ability to ignore antagonism, take responsibility for the problem, and suggest options towards a solution. If you are unable to do these things, it is in your best interests to locate a different job.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]thies, 2008-03-14 08:28 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]predestinedlove, 2008-03-14 12:31 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]scruloose, 2008-03-14 02:30 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]pinkdramon, 2008-03-16 10:26 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]msilverstar
2008-03-13 01:46 am UTC (link)
Well said!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: Basic accounts
[info]randomsome1
2008-03-13 02:00 am UTC (link)
FWIW, I <3 you. Have a boobies icon.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]xb95, 2008-03-13 02:39 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts
[info]ladyvoldything
2008-03-13 06:03 pm UTC (link)
As someone who has worked with lemurs, I object to this unnecessary slight on Madagascar primates. Even the most retarded of lemurs could see through such corporate bullshit.

In my professional opinion, we're being treated like retarded swine.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Basic accounts - [info]xb95, 2008-03-13 06:05 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]ladyvoldything, 2008-03-14 02:20 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]xb95, 2008-03-14 05:48 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]ladyvoldything, 2008-03-14 06:18 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]xscarlet, 2008-03-20 07:34 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Basic accounts - [info]ladyvoldything, 2008-03-20 07:51 pm UTC (Expand)

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